capture-0020 We’ve been hearing people say that God is cleansing the church, and I absolutely agree.  We have seen God act quickly in recent years and I’m sure this will continue when men and women of God continue in their failure.

However, I also believe God is going to deal with those who are operating in presumption and arrogance with cold love disguised as discernment.  Those who are slow to cover, love and intercede and who are quick to smirk, point and expose will feel God’s severe touch as well.

The following blog post is from Bill Johnson and Bethel Church in Redding, California.  My favorite quote from the article is:

While I will never blame Todd’s opponents for Todd’s bad choices (Todd alone is responsible for them) their opposition had a greater effect than any of his critics will likely own up to in this lifetime.

I so wish Todd’s critics would have prayed, served and loved.  There is no reward in shouting one’s personal disagreement on a non-essential of scripture with another brother or sister in Christ.  No reward in exposing someone whom God has not finished working on.  No reward in presuming our interpretation of scripture is greater than another’s in regard to the many non-absolutes that we can have differing opinions on.  There is great reward in covering, loving and serving.  God has biblical government well established, and it’s doubtful that one who is not in relationship with someone like Todd would be tapped out of nowhere to participate in his correction.  Yet, we see many irresponsibly sharing their opinion in public forums like the internet.

Mature believers will always be more impressed with someone who loves, serves, covers and is full of mercy and grace… full of intercession and commitment to undergird someone than they are with someone’s opinions and insights on a matter.  Todd’s critics are not impressive, but his friends very much are.

Here’s the post (found originally at http://www.ibethel.org/regarding-todd-bentley/):

Recent Sermon of the Week in regards to Todd Bentley THE BATTLE FOR GRACE PART 2 8:30AM

A great tragedy has come to light this past week. Todd Bentley, the revivalist who has been leading the Lakeland Outpouring meetings, has had a major meltdown and has filed for divorce. This comes at the worst possible time both for the revival and for those who have stood with him.

Back in June, Che Ahn , John Arnott, and I went to Lakeland, Florida, to do a commissioning service for Todd. We felt the need to stand with him. Opposition against him was great, and we could be a great strength to Todd in that time. John and Che especially could be a great asset as they had endured incredible opposition during the Toronto outpouring. Peter Wagner helped to oversee and lead that part of the meeting. Although he had not personally endorsed the revival, he felt it important enough to risk personal criticism from his peers to bring Todd into an apostolic alignment for his own safety.

I did not go to Lakeland and stand on the platform with Todd Bentley because he was perfect in character or because we agreed on everything he was doing in Lakeland. I went to Lakeland because of his enemies. The relentless criticism and opposition, coupled with the grueling and sometimes unwise schedule, were bound to take their toll on this young man—emotionally, mentally, physically, and spiritually. It happened two years ago, and it could happen again. It was my intention to bring a deflection into the mix so that he wouldn’t take all the heat by himself. Little did I realize it was too late. He was at the place of burnout again, abandoning his marriage and pulling out of all public ministry. While I will never blame Todd’s opponents for Todd’s bad choices (Todd alone is responsible for them) their opposition had a greater effect than any of his critics will likely own up to in this lifetime.

Now what? Pray for Todd and Shonnah for complete healing in their marriage and personal lives. Pray for those giving counsel to them that they would use great wisdom.

Please know that while we may not give details of our efforts, we are doing everything possible to help bring healing and order to this tragedy.

Blessings!

Bill Johnson

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This entry was posted on Thursday, September 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pm.
Categories: Revival and Prayer.

Viewing 56 Comments

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    So, when the body of Christ is confronted by false prophets and false teachers, Christians are to ignore the following Scriptures? Where is the reward in compromising the faith and turning a deaf-ear to deception?

    "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

    "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

    "Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting" (Romans 16:17-18).

    "Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" (Jude 1:3-4).

    "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ" (Colossians 2:8).

    "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but expose them" (Ephesians 5:11).

    "Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds" (2 John 1:9-10).

    "Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?" (2 Corinthians 6:14-15)
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    Of course we must deal with people who are clearly false prophets. But, do you realize that we are all to prophesy? Do you realize that in our humanness that we can have a bad day and discern incorrectly? We can fail? That doesn't mean we meant to fail, meant to lead astray... we just failed.

    Other times it's not the person giving the prophecy that is at fault... it's the one receiving it.

    To attempt to judge from a distance is irresponsible. You don't have all of the information necessary. You aren't a player in the person's life, so your opinion is not necessary.

    It would be easy for me to read Romans 16:17-18 and point the finger at you. You are causing dissension. But, I don't know you and can't simply take one or two statements and draw a final conclusion. It would be unfair and not my place.

    The same is true with Todd and Stacey. If I heard that you were weeping and interceding for them, your comments would hold more weight.
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    John, where is the Bible does it say "we are all to prophesy"?

    Also, a person claims to be a prophet of God, then foretells a prophecy. The prophecy fails, but the prophet just has a "bad day" and/or the one receiving the false prophecy is at fault?

    Where is this in the Bible?
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    John

    while I admire your earnest I have to flatly disagree with you again on this matter.

    You have to step back from this for awhile and let your own spirit settle. I would appeal to your better judgment in all earnest.

    I know most of these folks involved personally on some level having been in ministry over 30 years.

    Let me counter your persuasion a bit with this:

    Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
    Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
    Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
    Gal 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
    Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

    "Paul publicly and boldly" confronted Peter, why? "Because he was to be blamed", and I would venture a guess if that confrontation was yesterday, guys with that kind of reputation in the Active Living Church would have had it covered by GodTV and Paul would have wanted to have it happen that way. Why? God did not cover over this error of the mighty Apostle Peter, did He? No, how do we know that? Because I just quoted it from the Bible that the Saints read daily all over the World and in every nation these days! Can I hear an amen? Can you make the connection?

    Now put the gravity of those words of Paul from Galatians 2 against Peter in the balance with the gravity of Todd's errors, who has fallen into far worse and with everyone else who participated in that alignment ceremony that night and all the self justifications after all that that has occurred and quite frankly because of this very one I level some harsh criticism toward's this very behavior coming from Bill Johnson.

    We cannot justify this stuff and each of these men and women are not light weights and each is quite aware of this:

    Jas 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
    Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.

    Everything that happened that night happened by men and women using "words", prophesies!!!!

    I honestly believe you have not or you cannot observe/d that coming from Bill Johnson objectively and come away with anything other than Bill was covering for himself and making excuses and justifying his own errors here.

    According to Bill and Todd, Bill is and has been actively envolved in Todd's spiritual development! Contrast this relationship with Biblical standards:

    2Ti 2:1 You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
    2Ti 2:2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

    The Biblical standard laid out here for Apostolic growth in Spiritual maturity cannot, cannot, cannot be compromised or slackened one bit, especially because of the extremely evil times we live in.

    I don't want to go into this like the last time, but I will, if warranted because I sense a purity in you that I haven't found in awhile. Afterall our mandate is clear:

    1Ti 1:5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.


    Now, for the Lord's sake, don't take that last bit to far in your own spirit. Just back away from this for awhile.

    The one thing I read up there from you that I embrace is this and to it I say AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!!!!!!:::::>

    You wrote this above:

    [[God has biblical government well established, and it’s doubtful that one who is not in relationship with someone like Todd would be tapped out of nowhere to participate in his correction.]]

    Let the Spiritual men of the True, Active Living Church, without excuse or justification, help this family now according to the restoration mandate of God's Holy Scripture and yes, you and I have already agreed upon and no Godly man or woman would deny Todd or Shannon this:

    Gal 6:1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.
    Gal 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.
    Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.
    Gal 6:4 But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.
    Gal 6:5 For each one will bear his own load.

    amen
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    I'm still trying to figure out what all the fuss is about. All I saw were loving brothers and sisters attempting to serve and cover Todd. Todd failed, and has submitted to due process. I just don't see it as necessary to play Sherlock Holmes and go on the hunt for things we disagree with.

    Todd, Bill, Peter and the others love God very much. They love people very much. They hear God at times, and at times may miss it as we all do.

    I watched people attack Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker, etc. The question is, why? They were each repentant. How many times have you or I sinned in the last few days? What would it be like to have people recording and repeating everything we think or say? We have all fallen short, and we all have different perspectives on issues. Some see heresy while others see God involved. The non-essential issues of bible interpretation can cause great division,when they absolutely should not.

    The key issue is that some are pointing fingers while others are folding those fingers in prayer.
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    John,
    Swaggart may have seemed repentant on video on TV, but he refused to submit to his leadership's decisions about his correction. The Assemblies of God laid out some disciplinary stipulations and a restorative process but he rebelled and refused to submit. He's not a good example to use in that scenario.
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    I was at Jimmy's confession in Baton Rouge. True, he didn't submit to the national AG directives, but he did submit to the regional AG directives. The regional AG is the body that had jurisdiction.

    However, I agree that he was really in no position to debate. He should have (in my opinion) submitted to the national group.

    That being said, my two points stand. Jimmy was highly anointed and effective and, twenty years later, I'm confident he's quite repentant. That part of it is not ours to judge.

    It's way too subjective. That's a key problem with issues like this. People don't like the way something comes down, the way someone ministers, etc. But, they attempt to take subjective issues and cast final, authoritative judgment on them. They all fell. They may have adhered to some doctrine that others may not adhere to... but, we have to pray for them, trust that God is working on them and be willing to joyfully disagree with non-essential doctrinal issues. We agree, as brothers and sisters, to agree to disagree, to love, to run the race together, to hold each other up.

    Now, if someone is clearly violating an absolute of scripture (meaning, their belief would cause them to be a non-Christian) then we must act. If they willingly continue in their sin, and God exposes that, then we must, with tears in our eyes, pray for them but pull back from their ministry into our lives. We don't have to rip them up though.
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    He didn't submit to any of the discipline John. He was supposed to be out of ministry completely for 2 years. He wouldn't do it, period. I have had issues with Lakeland, private ones that I won't even share here, but I believe that God did work and move in someo people and that is great. Some of the things that you are calling non-essentials of doctrine though, receiving doctrine and such from angels, just isn't supported by scripture. It may not speak directly against it, but it definitely doesn't give credence to it either. No where in scripture do you see doctrine given by angels. Do they help? Do they appear to people to minister to them?Are they assigned to each and every one of us to help watch over us? Yes, Yes, and Yes. They just don't do some of the stuff that was being claimed. That's one of the things I have taken issue with.
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    Jimmy Swaggart's issue is 20 years old... my goodness, let it go. God is probably using him now, after his failure, in greater ways than you and me combined.

    We should be vigilant regarding the absolutes of scripture. But, the non-absolutes should never cause division. We can disagree, and that's ok. We are still brothers and sisters.

    Absolutes of scripture are what define us a Christians. Jesus is God. He came as a man, died on the cross, rose from the dead. We are sinners. Stuff like that. If the Bible is silent on a matter doesn't mean it's in opposition to it. So, we can't easily draw conclusions on how appropriate it is. It's not an issue that can result in division within the body.
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    John, you made it relevant in this discussion by equating what, in your opinion, is happening to Todd Bentley with what happened to Swaggart. The 2 situations are completely different in every way. At least Todd is doing what is suggested, maybe demanded from his "overseers". That is a good thing.
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    I understand the relevance... and I agree, I'm glad Todd is going through the process as he is.

    The thing that is troubling is that people who have no relation to people like Todd or Jimmy somehow feel they need to voice an opinion.

    And, it's usually an accusatory opinion of judgment. It has an unhealthy soap opera feel to it.

    If someone under my care is struggling, or someone in my sphere of influence is, then, there is biblical protocol for gently, lovingly and even directly dealing with that issue. But, to rip someone as an outsider just feels like gossip.
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    >The thing that is troubling is that people who have no relation to people like Todd

    Well, the one's that supposedly knew him were either taken by suprise or were winking at sin.

    No, with a public figure like TB had an effect on people in churches throughout the world. I cannot speak for others, but my concern has always been for those getting sucked into deception. And that's why I spoke out. Yes, it is disgusting when a preacher has a girl friend on the side, lies about God telling him to ask for $1000 offerings, places ATMs at the tent, and gets drunk. But more disturbing was the pride and arrogance, the calling down of angels, the lies about 3rd heaven experiences and spirit travel, and the violent ministry.

    I'd say those who knew him really screwed up. I've been told he swore some to secrecy. Was he really that intimidating? Do his friend's really know God? I mane what could they possible have been thinking.


    I will continue to contend for the faith. Thise that wish to place millstones around their necks have my greatest sympathies, but my burden is for the tender ones they cause to stumble. People like Todd, if thay had really been to heaven, would be expected to have a little more fear of the Lord.
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    You've obviously been hurt by someone in leadership, or you are just a bit cold hearted.

    The fact that a stranger's decision making process causes you to react like this is odd. Do you love Todd Bentley? He's your brother. Not your cousin, not your uncle. Your brother. Would you lay your life down for him?

    You talk about being sucked into deception. I was at the services in Lakeland, and God moved in massive power. The love my wife and I experienced was off the charts. The tenderness in Todd's eyes as he prayed for us was amazing.

    Should Todd have a girlfriend on the side? No way. Do I still love Todd? Of course. Has Todd made right steps to resolve the issue? It's not my business, but I do believe that he has.

    Asking for offerings is scriptural. Having an ATM on site is convienient. Drunkenness is not good, of course... but I'm praying that Todd is set free from that. Pride and arrogance? You can't presume that. It's irresponsible to do so, and really none of your business.

    Calling down angels? Not unbiblical. You called Todd a liar regarding 3rd Heaven experiences? That is so inappropriate. You don't have the right or the knowledge necessary to make that call. Have you possibly sinned by slandering Todd. Just take it to the Lord.

    I know two people who have had 3rd Heaven experience... and it has changed their lives. Does it grant immunity to sin? Nope.

    If I heard love and compassion for Todd coming through in your post, it would make a night and day difference. It's right to stand for holiness, against heresy... but, it's done from a position of intercession and not accusation. Remember, the enemy is the accuser of the brethren. We must never embrace his strategy.
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    Talk about cold hearted- don't you compare me to the enemy. I'm a brother in the Lord,

    I'm not hurting about any leadership, but I've seen a lot of hurt in my 25 years as a c'matic/p'costal. My heart goes out for those who are terribly confused by this mess. And that's what it is.

    Liar? Deciever? Just quoting C. Peter Wagner. And he knows Todd.

    Hey you know waht's interesting- all these people saying how much we should interceed for Todd and I don't hear anyone saying that about his girlfriend. what's up with that?

    As to angels, ATMs and $1000 offerings that the Lord didn;t really tell him to take but he said the Lord did, I'm pretty muich taking the position of Dutch Sheets and C. Peter Wagner. Is that a problem?

    -Bill
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    >>However, I also believe God is going to deal with those who are operating in presumption and arrogance with cold love disguised as discernment. Those who are slow to cover, love and intercede and who are quick to smirk, point and expose will feel God’s severe touch as well.

    The "cold love disguised as discernment" is the first thing I'd like to address. John, I know you know my position [I'm formerly "Lee" from Kim Olsen's site] regarding Bentley and Lakeland from well before Bentley's 'fall.' Briefly, one out of many doctrinal issues was Bentley's admittance that one of William Branham's angels provided his healing power rather than the Holy Spirit [although Bentley would also say on other occasions that it was the Holy Spirit]. Where is that in scripture?

    This has nothing to do with a 'cold love' John. This has to do with a fervent love for the Word of God. And, this doesn't even require discernment but rather a cursory reading of the Word.

    Secondly, I ask you, I challenge you, to find anywhere in print where any of 'Todd's opponents' have 'smirked' regarding Bentley's admitted indiscretion.

    Bill Johnson's quote:

    "While I will never blame Todd’s opponents for Todd’s bad choices (Todd alone is responsible for them) their opposition had a greater effect than any of his critics will likely own up to in this lifetime."

    1) If 'Todd alone is responsible,' then how are Todd's 'critics' of any 'effect.' So, while Johnson says he'll 'never blame Todd's 'opponents' for Bentley's actions, Johnson in fact does. To blame someone else for one's own actions or the actions of another sounds like 'the dog ate my homework' kind of thing. Bentley needs to take personal responsibility; and, we've yet to hear a public statement/repentance. Absent this and with the news of Bentley's filing for divorce, it is apparent he does not even want to work on his marriage. This is tragic as he and Shonna have young children.
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    Hi... good to see you. (why the name change?)

    I've heard a lot of people trumpet the love of the Word of God, but there is clear evidence of wrong motives when the love of the Word results in finger pointing and a lack of brokenness and love for a person. It's religion. It's embracing 'facts' over Truth (Jesus).

    It's so important that people clearly see our heart to love, cover, serve and pray hard for people that are struggling. We can't easily assume that people are intentionally deceptive, proud, etc. Maybe they really believe what they believe. Maybe they translate scripture differently than you. Maybe they have struggled with a sin issue their whole life. Maybe there are generational curses attached to them. There are many things to consider. It's not usually a black and white issue of someone hating God and deceiving man.

    So, we act like David did toward Saul. We may want to personally separate ourselves from someone, from their direct influence in our lives, but we don't 'touch' them.

    What's the purpose in that? It's not our job, unless we are someone's direct overseer, their shepherd. Even in that case, we don't discuss an issue like this with accusation and obstanance, but with tears and tenderness.

    Lastly, we can't determine someone to be unbiblical simply because they mention things that aren't explicitly written about in the Bible. That has caused a lot of division and fear lately. I see it a lot on Kim's site and others like hers. If someone doesn't see someone in the Bible calling for angels to minister healing (just an example, we actually do see this in scripture), then they determine it to be a sinful practice. That's not a good litmus test. The test is to check with scripture to see if it's forbidden. The practice of witchcraft, for example, is forbidden. Gossip is forbidden (which discussions about people like Todd often violate this).
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