capture-00006-8-7-2008 Here’s a quick talk about a major uprising that has occurred due to the recent Todd Bentley led Florida Outpouring.  It’s an uprising of people, who certainly may love God and are very interested in upholding biblical truth, but are simply mean spirited.  Cruel.  Such people can be found all over the internet, so I felt it was widespread enough to warrant a discussion.

The general trend is to find some issues, and then make a ‘final’ judgment call on whether the individual has violated biblical truth.  They then spread that around and do much damage to the church.  The problem is that there may be many other thoughtful, wise and studied Christians who simply disagree.

Many of the people pride themselves in being counted in the ‘Berean’ camp.  The problem?  They don’t generally exhibit the character of the Bereans of scripture.  The Bereans in the Bible were actually declared to be ‘more nobel’.  Why?  Not because of their super sleuth like abilities to discover error.  Not even because they were champions of doctrinal purity.  Why then?  Because they eagerly received the news of a fresh move of God!  Then they poured through scripture like children at Christmas as they ripped open a new gift!  They were childlike!  If it was a bad gift, they would have been sad and would have rejected it.  But they weren’t suspicious and critical.  They were eager!

Does this mean we are to be passive or haphazard in our handling of issues like this?  Now way!  Will we have to stand with fire in our eyes and a bold declaration in our mouths in the end-times?  Yes.  We will have to have a strong stance against false moves of God.  But, I guarantee, the attitude will be much more meek than we see in many now.  It is possible, and necessary to be both humble and very bold. 

The reality is that there are biblical points that we can and will have varying opinions on… and the person who disagrees with us is not automatically a heretic!

One camp may say that you cannot seek out angelic encounters, while another says that it’s not biblically forbidden.  (In fact, remember the angel that stirred the water?  People sought that angel out)  Listen to the podcast and leave some comments below!

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This entry was posted on Monday, August 25th, 2008 at 9:43 am.
Categories: Revival and Prayer.

Viewing 7 Comments

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    podcast does not work, only the intro
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    Oops... it's fixed now.
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    Beautiful piece, brother. I've also posted something today about the Bentley issue and the dangers involved, but more from a worldview-level perspective. Thought you might be interested.

    Grace and Peace,
    Raffi Shahinian
    Parables of a Prodigal World
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    John,

    your point is well taken. I am mindful of this verse:

    Act 17:13 But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was proclaimed by Paul at Berea also, they came there too, agitating and stirring up the crowds.

    We do see this agitation and stirring up the crowds "against" the move of God as you have noted. So now what?

    Having agreed with your point I want to step back and observe some things in this matter.

    I watched the youtube "ordination" where there were supposed "seasoned" men of God embracing Todd and ordaining him as this "young" Apostle.

    In Ephesians, without a doubt, as you must embrace and agree, here the "very well seasoned and oiled" Apostle lays out a gridiron so to speak for building the Church.

    Some of the points I want to touch on to make my point. First, Eph. 1:3!!! Yes, it is all about Him according to Christ! Second, Eph. 2:10. Can we as "monday morning judges of Sunday understand some of what is now occurring? Yes, yes we can as we shall see. Third, Eph. 3:8-12. It seems to me there was a lack of discerning or hearing the Holy Ghost "discern" this outcome and so quickly after the outpouring began. That causes me to pause and ask, what got swept up and overlooked seeing it is clear the function of the mature Body of Christ in manifesting the manifold wisdom of God to the rulers and authorities in heavenly places? Fourth, Eph. 4:11...., just to touch on what now is apparent and apparently missed or not embraced during the outpouring, that is, Apostles "equip" the Saints, establishing them in the "Truth" so that the body builds itself up to stand against the wiles of the devils. How did C Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson, John Arnot and others miss or seemingly not discern Todd's personal situations? These are the "seasoned" Apostles who embraced and ordained the young man into this equipping work as an Apostle of God for such a time as this outpouring. We can see now that it has come out some of what Paul was getting at, the heart of the matter when we read these things, "not to be tossed to and fro", carried about by winds of doctrines, i.e. angels, speaking the "truth" in love, "be joined together spiritually", as one body, "each part working properly" with one another, "not walking in futility of mind", not being darkened in mind, not being alienated and so on. It's all right there. And somehow with regard to this young ministry of Todd and his wife, you would think the well seasoned men of God, those Apostles and Prophets who are supposed to have known them well would have had more discernment?

    So, what am I saying? My mentoring Apostle taught about Ministry for the Lord, that if you cannot do simple things like clean chicken shacks after they make messes and enjoy serving chickens, you will not make it in ministry with people continually under the condemnations of the devils as they are graciously and lovingly equipped to come out of darkness and enter into light and be converted from being children of darkness to children of Light to grow in Grace and the Knowledge of the Truth to stand in the Power and Might of Christ and the Holy Ghost.

    It is sad, but what would you expect of immature Christians not fully vetted by Seasoned Ministers of Grace and Mercy and Peace? Don't you suppose those guys who ordained Todd are well seasoned, oiled Ministers of the Gospel? And as I noted about Paul there in Acts 17, he was not able to stop the agitation and stirrings against the Gospel outpourings of his day!

    Let the antics of the immature be noted as you have done so well herein. Let's forget what is behind and now press on to maturity in Christ seeking the Wisdom of the Holy Ghost and His Favor so that what Paul indicated will come front and center, full circle mindful still of that human quality, immaturity:::>

    Act 20:32 And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

    and most certainly this too:::>

    Act 26:16 But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you,
    Act 26:17 delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles--to whom I am sending you
    Act 26:18 to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

    Let's continue helping our people turn from darkness to light, from the power of Satan to God that they too might receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by Christ and the Holy Ghost for the Glory of God.

    One last verse then:

    Psa 50:15 and call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me."

    According to Prophesy, troubled times are ahead! Let us resolve for ourselves and our people to "call upon the Lord" in the day of trouble then seeing He promises He will deliver us and we will indeed glorify Him!
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    >>just to touch on what now is apparent and apparently missed or not embraced during the outpouring, that is, Apostles "equip" the Saints, establishing them in the "Truth" so that the body builds itself up to stand against the wiles of the devils. How did C Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson, John Arnot and others miss or seemingly not discern Todd's personal situations? These are the "seasoned" Apostles who embraced and ordained the young man into this equipping work as an Apostle of God for such a time as this outpouring. We can see now that it has come out some of what Paul was getting at, the heart of the matter when we read these things, "not to be tossed to and fro", carried about by winds of doctrines, i.e. angels, speaking the "truth" in love, "be joined together spiritually", as one body, "each part working properly" with one another, "not walking in futility of mind", not being darkened in mind, not being alienated and so on. It's all right there. And somehow with regard to this young ministry of Todd and his wife, you would think the well seasoned men of God, those Apostles and Prophets who are supposed to have known them well would have had more discernment?

    Many of you know that an extraordinary healing revival has broken out in Lakeland, Fla., led by Todd Bentley. Unfortunately, there are some who have criticized or opposed this revival. History seems to be repeating itself. In order to stand with Todd and support Todd and this mighty work of God, Dr. Peter Wagner made the suggestion that some of the leaders of the Revival Alliance network, commission Todd as an evangelist and as a revivalist. Bill Johnson, John Arnott, and Che Ahn (three of the leaders of the Revival Alliance) have agreed to come for this special commissioning service. This is not an ordination service, since Todd is already an ordained minister, but this is to show apostolic support for Todd and to state that this revival is from God. Therefore, Todd would like to invite as many friends and partners to come and celebrate with Todd as he is commissioned by these apostolic leaders. [ InJesus.com, June 23, 2008 ]

    From my own personal encounters with John Arnot and his organization I do not even rightfuly believe he is a true christian firstly

    http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/05/30/why-...
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    ok, I don't as well and I have never met the man, but I have met his
    personal fruit in those I know and love!

    Now what?
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    And I thought that all of the professing Christians were to be decent, kind, lving persons or is this how you too do now find out all those that are real christians and those who clearly are not still too?

    (John 13:34 KJV) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
    (John 15:12 KJV) This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
    (John 15:17 KJV) These things I command you, that ye love one another.
    (Rom 13:8 KJV) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
    (1 Th 4:9 KJV) But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
    (1 Pet 1:22 KJV) Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
    (1 John 3:11 KJV) For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
    (1 John 3:23 KJV) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
    (1 John 4:7 KJV) Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
    (1 John 4:11 KJV) Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
    (1 John 4:12 KJV) No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
    (2 John 1:5 KJV) And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

    (John 8:31 KJV) If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
    (John 13:35 KJV) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
 

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